I started this discussion on twitter yesterday: If a #winelover reads a large number of #wine books… will he become a #winesnob?
Best answer so far: “The #winesnob is associated with #pretentiousness & not #knowledge.” Mia Anzola
Then I asked on Facebook: “But what do you think?”
I got many very good comments, so I decided to make it a little more formal than just a conversation on Facebook that eventually is going to disappear….
If you are short on time and don’t want to read everything that’s been said, here is my favorite:
- Todd Trzaskos: I believe that a true #winelover who gains great wine knowledge through study and experience, is ultimately humbled by the vastness and depth of the subject, and realizes that the people who grow, make, share and consume the end product are a true community within which wine snobbery has no place.
Magnus Reuterdahl: I think that anyone who falls in love with a subject, products or what ever wants to know more about it – if that comes from books, articles, blog posts etc does not really matter. The more you learn the more you want to know or you get bored and tag along the next thing that comes along, it might be considered snobby but is rather quite a natural consequence – with knowledge you get picky. Life is just to short for boring wines (or you just wants to get drunk and don’t care about it)!
Adam Japko: Luiz, book knowledge does not produce snobs at any more vigorous pace than lots of field and tasting experience might….it’s all about the person, their values, how nicely they play in the sand box, and their Karma. Your personal style and friendship is always a pleasure in my world and club!
Cathrine Todd: I agree with Adam Japko… I could go on a ridiculously rant on this subject, but will try to keep it short. It doesn’t matter how much people have read or not read, how much they have, what degrees they have or not have, ect.. or whatever other superficial things people can label them with.. their values, ethics, yes, how nicely they play with others are extremely important… but also, they need to be comfortable and secure with themselves. Nice open minded people who have a strong character will never be snobby no matter what happens. That is why you can “never judge a book by its cover” … hehehe.. Also, like what Todd has to say, and that is the way it should be!
Sarah May Grunwald: Wine snobs are like hipsters. Lot of talk without a lot of real experience. Wine snobs forget that wine is made first by a farmer in a vineyard. Wine snobs forget that connection to the land and focus on the label. Just as bad a food snobs.
Luiz Alberto: Wise words, Luciana… but I was confronted today by this tweet by W. Blake Gray (I think most of us know him): “@TheWineHub A lot of travelers like to say that they aren’t tourists. Sometimes we are what others say we are, like it or not.” Apparently some people believe that “perception is reality”…
Luciana Braz: Perception is reality for the observer, always. The Tweet seams to talk about cultural shock between the interactive subjects and the third one (the observer). If you grew up in a touristic city you´d say “they´re all tourists, even the what-ever-nationality professor doing her/his field research”.. if you didn´t she/he would be “working and enjoy her/his free time by the sun once and while”… and Philosophy comes up, a few definitions and parameters have to be set to start talking <- Do I feel snob saying that… well… a little bit…
Luiz Alberto: Luciana: Agreed! And to take it further… is not what you say, is it? It’s about your audience… some people may think you’re snob just because you love Champagne… And please don’t feel snob when you say those “philosophical things”… I know you don’t!
Stephan Steve Bosák: I am a nice guy who loves wine amongst many other things !! I would never be condescending to anyone !! Most insecure people are stuck up snobs.
Ed Hodson: Snobbery comes from insecurity, flawed understanding, and lack of knowledge, along with excessive concern about the opinions of others and a warped need to be perceived as special. Books are the cure. So #winelovers who DON’T read wine books are more likely to become snobs than those who do. #Winelovers who read tons of wine books have high potential for becoming #winebores, an entirely different creature.
Brett Jones: Snob. Anyone who thinks they are better than someone else based upon superficial factors. When you read a lot of books you don’t have time to be superficial…
Stacy Sullivan Woods: Wine snobs put themselves above all others. There are beer snobs, car snobs, watch snobs etc. I feel sorry for snobs. They don’t get it and don’t know that they don’t get it. A saturated sponge full of dishwater, full of nothing useful. #Winelovers on the other hand are always thirsty for knowledge and are generous when sharing their own.
Stacy Sullivan Woods: In the spirit or Bastille day – “judge a man by his questions rather than his answers” – Voltaire the snob has no questions but all of the answers.
Fabien Lainé: Knowledge is great only when you use it properly. Your behavior can make you pretentious or snob…
—Dr. Vinny
And here is the definition of a #winelover:
What is a winelover? An easy answer is someone who loves wine. For me it is a little more than that, for me it is the wine, things that are connected with wine and personal meetings. The #winelover-community is enabling all this and more. You might have seen some of our awesome t-shirts or badges…
There’s a clear difference!! 🙂
Great post and many thanks for the inclusion in the discussion that was interesting and very good and the port as well 🙂
Great conversation – and I heartily agree with Patrick. In America, there’s a myopia on the part of the wealthy where they only drink top-priced California wines, especially Cabs. That’s a kind of snob who misses on much of the world’s most delicious wine!
I believe Americans’ attitudes are changing. I work in a very traditional wine store in NYC and we deal with a lot of wealthy Americans. Yes, they want Napa Cab most of the time, but the younger generations are learning bits about other areas from the internet, wanting to learn more about Lebanese and Jura wines for example. Wealthy consumers will ask us about these wines, try to learn a little about them and pay a good price for a wine coming from a small winery, which is great for the winery. The internet is changing everything (SO KEEP BLOGGING) and even old school retailers see that, and they are expanding their selection. I am hopeful that we are living in exciting times for wine in the US! But I am known for being overly enthusiastic and positive 🙂
Thanks Magnus and Diane!! You are true #winelover-s! Cheers!
Cathrine: This is great news! The future seems to look brighter after the things you said… 🙂 Cheers my dear #winelover!!
Do you know? Suddenly I realize that the thing that much characterizes a #winelover is…sharing! A #winelover LOVES to share his/her wine, and the experience about it. A #winesnob doesn’t. He/she is a lonely soul, voluntarily lonely.
I think the main issue is how you treat other people. Consider the following conversation:
“Hey Jonas, I must give you an important heads-up: They’re releasing the 2008 Amarone della Valpolicella at Odd-Bins on Wednesday. It’s a must buy!”
“But my dear Jessica, you KNOW I only drink DRC…”
“You’re such a snob!”
“Yes… I know.”
I picture that the last sentence uttered with a big smile. There’s nothing we can do about Jonas, he’s hopelessly lost in the claws of drinking wine at the far end of the price spectrum. Whether he’s doing it for the love of wine or for showing off, we do not know. And it does not really matter. He’s happy where he is. He’s not judging anybody. But, let him be judgmental instead:
“Hey Jonas, I must give you an important heads-up: They’re releasing the 2008 Amarone della Valpolicella at Odd-Bins on Wednesday. It’s a must buy!”
“Why do you insult me with such worthless advice? Don’t you know Amarone wines are over-priced, over-oaked, over-sulphured, too much residual sugar, extremely non-complex and aimed at people wanting to show-off? I just CAN’T understand why people buy that shit, over and over again and in addition to that, they also try to throw it on me. I hate it!”
“You’re such a snob!”
“This has nothing to do with snobbism. This is reality. If people read more about wine and actually looked at the alternatives, such as Barolo, people would have a greater wine experience.”
Well, is Jonas a snob in this case? Or a wine lover? For me, being a snob, or a wine lover for that matter, is a positive thing. But it requires that you do not judge people, or look down upon them. If people want to drink Amarone, let them. If people want to consume over-sulphured bag-in-boxes, let them. Or if someone’s deep down with DRC, let them. I do not know where this blabbering’s going, but I think it boils down to this: Don’t consider people less than you because they are not as enlightened as you are.
Dearest Luiz,
Perfect timing. My next column in The Guardian (which will be online tomorrow afternoon) is about this VERY subject!!!
Hope all is well and hope to see you and Nanci soon.
Cx
I agree with Fabien and many of our other friends and colleagues… At first you fall in love with wine, and like in all love stories, the sensations are mostly what is going to your head 😛 But… with time, just like with intimacy, knowledge is the source for us to understand better our sensations and develop our senses…
Let’s not forget wine is not “Coca cola”, and the reason why we are #winelover s, is because, just like us, wine has personality, it is alive, and like a digital print, has the power to become unique depending on the hands which create them and palates which taste them. So there you have it: knowledge and feeling are both essential for wine. What none of us need is empty attitude from posers who try to shy away other people to become #winelover s…
It’s a great question Luiz – and a relevant one. I think that all #winelovers probably been accused for being wine snobs – but that is not really the issue here I think.
Personally I think that a wine snob has no real interest in sharing their knowledge & experiences with others outside their own narrow circle of likeminded peeps. Often it goes hand in hand with a rigid and self contained world view – treating the subject, wine that is, as a something that is static and unchanging. It is the attitude of “I have nothing more to learn and I know what is good and what is not – and don’t you dare tell me anything else”.
And as many others already have said – it is probably connected to a feeling on insecurity.
The snob usually also thinks that there really is some kind of linear relationship betw price & demand & quality! Something that we all know isn’t true. Yes there are more or less rational reasons to why the wines from Burgundy and Bordeaux are so much more expensive and considered finer than other wines. But we all know that there are a lot of irrational reasons to (and some are down right historical accidents).
The worst thing with snobbery is probably that it is excluding. A #winelover is including and want more people to take part and share those wonderful experiences.
Ciao Elisabetta! I agree with most of your comment… but I’m not sure if all #winesnobs are “voluntary lonely”… I believe that some of them don’t have enough emotional intelligence to do any better… Cheers!
Hi Red Scream: Wow! that’s very interesting… not judging people is actually the key issue… but can we really do it as human beings? I don’t think so… #sadbuttrue Cheers!
I totally agree with you, Karin! No doubt about it… The world needs more #winelover-s!! Cheers!!
Brilliant points Magnus. I know how busy you are… so thank you so much for taking the time!! Cheers!
I could be a bitch and be a #winelover. I could be a saint and be a #winelover. I’m definitely a mother and a #winelover. Some might think I’m a winesnob cause I refuse to drink wines that don’t feel good, in my very personal perception. But I’d never judge others because of their wine habits. The deeper I dive into the wondrous world of wine (www 😉 ) the more #winelovers I find. And I deeply agree with Todd Trzaskos: being #winelover has to do with humbleness. With understanding (by whatever means you find it). And, yes, being child: not losing the ability of amazement, of gazing at this wonder of transformation from something vibrantly growing out there into something so vibrantly touching us inside.
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